misleading insertion.. in the 2-22-02 awake magazine with the cover title how safe are you at work?
has an interesting article under watching the world.. blood transfusion dangers.
one in three transfusions were being administered when, under [new south wales] health guidelines, they should not have been, reports australias sydney morning herald.
Welcome, Christian Observer.
I'd be happy to send you a scan of the article. You'd have to send me your e-mail address, though.
-Belligerent Paladin
*** w86 5/15 25 Are Religious Councils Approved by God? ***
It is true that all genuine Christians speak in agreement. But this is not due to unyielding ecclesiastical pressure. Rather, it is because their beliefs and practices are soundly based on God’s inspired Word. (1 Corinthians 1:10; Acts 17:10, 11; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17)
misleading insertion.. in the 2-22-02 awake magazine with the cover title how safe are you at work?
has an interesting article under watching the world.. blood transfusion dangers.
one in three transfusions were being administered when, under [new south wales] health guidelines, they should not have been, reports australias sydney morning herald.
Misleading insertion.
In the 2-22-02 Awake magazine with the cover title “How Safe are you at Work?” has an interesting article under Watching the world.
Blood Transfusion Dangers
“One in three transfusions were being administered when, under [New South Wales] Health guidelines, they should not have been,” reports Australia’s Sydney Morning Herald. “The guidelines call for a blood transfusion if the patient’s haemoglobin level is seven or below.” Dr. Ross Wilson, who conducted the study on blood use, explained that “giving an unnecessary transfusion could kill a patient by inducing heart failure.” According to a study that Dr. Wilson conducted six years earlier, “about 18,000 [Australians] a year died as a result of complications they developed directly as a result of the medical treatment they received.” Dr. Wilson recommends that doctors be reminded of the blood transfusion health guidelines each time they request a transfusion and also that patients be informed about the guidelines so they can question their physician directly.
This is a classical example of how the Watchtower organization misquotes information with the intention to deceive. At first glance, a person could easily get the wrong impressions.
First of all, the title is misleading. Dr. Wilson was not talking about the dangers of blood transfusions, but rather the following of guidelines for when a blood transfusion should be administered. The title leads the individual, especially if the individual is a dedicated JW, to the mind-set that Dr. Wilson’s main thrust is the dangers involved in blood transfusions.
Secondly, it is very misleading to put in the quote, “about 18,000 [Australians] a year died as a result of complications they developed directly as a result of the medical treatment they received.” in the paragraph. This has nothing to do with blood transfusions. “Medical treatment” is a very broad term. To put it in this brief snippet entitled “Blood Transfusion Dangers” in my mind is nothing short of intentional deception to further vilify and reinforce the current paranoia of blood transfusions in the Witness’ doctrines.
Since it cannot find doctors to support its crackpot medicine, the Organization continues to stay true to its form and take quotations out of context to further its own ends.
-The Belligerent Paladin
just found this on the web.
http://www.eusty.co.uk/.
:-[letterhead from the legal department at patterson] december 5, 2001 .
"Please accept an expression of our warm Christian love and greetings."
Even while a fully indoctrinated dub, I was always puzzled by the coldly loving expressions that were obviously just a polite nothing. How much more formality could you possibly heap on a phrase that is supposed to express love and greetings?
I also loved the DC parts where a father would say to his son, "In fact, son, I COMMEND you."
Ah, nothing so heart-warming as such a sincere commendation.
The Belligerent Paladin
(Who has been commended before and doesn't want it to happen again)
jehovahs witnesses true christians or antichrists.
are witnesses the only true christians on earth?
are they the only ones who truly know what it means to be a christian and to apply those principles in their day-to-day life?
Hi PlmKrzy,
I'm glad your thoughts were provoked. I see some people on these boards that are ready to believe anything that is fed them especially if it's negative on the Witnesses. I understand that feeling, but we need to remember to always try to verify what other people say for ourselves before we can put stock in it. Thanks for that little reminder.
Howdy Elijah The Third. Although I have certain convictions, I don't know if I would ever want to join a church. I can see some definite advantages, but I also prefer to do my own thinking.
Later,
-The Belligerent Paladin
i know how very hard it is for us to leave a friend.. or let go of a loved one through death.
many here have been raised in the truff..... while others have only been either associated or were in a breif time.... so i have a question.. .
how long were you out before you were able to make a "worldly" friend??.
Truthfully, I'm still not officially "out". I have a number of "worldly friends". I was raised a witness and stopped judging people by their standing in "the truth" the day after I realized the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine was a load of crap.
Since I'm not DF'd or DA'd I haven't had the shunning thing happen yet. Since I have a lot of friends who aren't witnesses now, it shouldn't be too hard for me. My martial arts instructor is going to be a big help when that happens.
I'm sure it depends greatly on the individual. My wife will have a more diffiCULT time with it, but I'll make sure she get the support she needs
one man could do it.. like samson, positioned between pillars of vital structure,.
one man could bring the watchtower society crashing down.. it could be another governing body member, defecting.. it could be someone in the legal dept.
or writing staff,.
"You Bethel Lurkers reading this,
Stare across your dining halls and crowded hallways.
Ask yourself, Who will it be?
Who has the 'goods'?
Who has the opportunity?
Who finally has the will to do it?"
I think that's going too far, Metatron. If you're not careful you'll make the inherent Bethel paranoia set in, then the whole lot of them are going to get cleaned out and replaced!
-The Belligerent Paladin
When loud cries of "Apostacy!" fill the air, that's when I know I have the "Truth". 'Cause only the true religion would kick out any dissidents to keep the congregation clean!
in some organizations, reform can become impossible.. explosive and centrifugal forces can build up, year after year,.
without relief.
after that, even a small pin prick can cause.
"Have they reached the point of no return? Would any basic change
in doctrine or practice burst the Watchtower bubble? I think a
case can be made that they must resist reform out of fear of
the deluge that might follow.('we can talk to df'd people?
we can take blood? we can vote?')."
I think they are in a pickle. They can't make any big change right now. They made a change in/around 1995 with the sheep/goats thing and the generation thing. That caused quite a stir in the congregations. If they really changed anything major right now I think the Exodus would kill them. The more they try not to change, the more people notice how silly the current doctrines are.
-The Belligerent Paladin
"The old man fought until the very end. Probably because he knew that the energies he put into play, when they failed, would bring about a very sudden, and relatively painless death."
okay fess up: whats your handle mean?.
my handle: mindchild comes from computer scientist and futurist dr. hans moravec: who wrote the book, the future of robot and human intelligence which is a book about when we will be able to construct machines capable of human intelligence and raises the possibility of uploading ourselves (every thought we ever had) into an android body much superior to the human ones we have now.
i entertain the hope that not only will i live long enough to see this happen, i will transfer myself (the complete essence of what is me) into a body of my own choosing and become immortal if i so choose.
Belligerent - Because I try to promote an attitude of positive belligerence amongst myself and others. (Whatever that is.)
Paladin - Which is a holy warrior. (Whatever that is.) I perceive myself as such in my frequent moments of narcissism and self delusion. Warrior, because I don't run away from conflict and consider myself pretty good at it. Holy, because I should be cannonized for sainthood and can walk on water when it gets pretty deep (the water, that is.) and like pretty much everybody but the vicious, lying, backstabbing scum that seems to creep in everywhere.
Belligerent Paladin -because its kind of an oxymoron. (e.g. the truth, my life, you know, etc.)
-The Belligerent Paladin (aka Buscadordeverdad)
P.S. Good to see you, Cygnus
"There are orcs afoot - now where did I put my Broad ... Sword."
jehovahs witnesses true christians or antichrists.
are witnesses the only true christians on earth?
are they the only ones who truly know what it means to be a christian and to apply those principles in their day-to-day life?
Thank you, Will Power.
I have actually known two women who professed to be annointed. One had the last name of Sponceller (sp?) who died in the late 70s. The other one had the last name of Beaman, I believe.
However, all of the annointed who are in power are men.
-Belligerent Paladin
jehovahs witnesses true christians or antichrists.
are witnesses the only true christians on earth?
are they the only ones who truly know what it means to be a christian and to apply those principles in their day-to-day life?
Jehovah’s Witnesses – True Christians or Antichrists
Are Witnesses the only True Christians on earth? Are they the only ones who truly know what it means to be a Christian and to apply those principles in their day-to-day life? Is everyone else, as their religion states, Antichrists? Or is mainstream Christendom more on the “right track” and the Witnesses, with their peculiar brand of theology, against Christ? Lets look at Witnesses, and see how they stand up to their own definition of what the Antichrist group is.
First of all, lets address what Jehovah’s Witnesses regard as the Antichrist. Witnesses, of course, view the Antichrist as a group of individuals and not one particular person. The encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, has this to say.
*** it-1 116 Antichrist ***
Denial of Jesus as the Christ and as the Son of God of necessity embraces the denial of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning him: his origin, his place in God’s arrangement, his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures as the promised Messiah, his ministry and teachings and prophecies, as well as any opposition to or efforts to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King. –Bold added
So let’s see how well the Witness faith measures up to its guidelines on how to identify the Antichrist. If there is evidence that any “Scriptural teaching concerning him [is denied]” or if there is “any … effort to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King” then we must conclude that by their own standards they are part of the Antichrist.
One little known matter among Witnesses is that their official teaching denies Christ as the mediator for the majority of Witnesses. Here is what the Insight book has to say:
*** it-2 360 Mediator ***
MEDIATOR
One who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them; an intercessor; an intermediary agent, or go-between. In the Scriptures the term is applied to Moses and Jesus, the mediators respectively of the Law covenant and the new covenant.—Ga 3:19; 1Ti 2:5.
*** it-2 362 Mediator ***
Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Mediator in order that the ones called “might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance” (Heb 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but “Abraham’s seed.” (Heb 2:16) He assists those who are to be brought into the new covenant to be ‘adopted’ into Jehovah’s household of spiritual sons; these eventually will be in heaven as Christ’s brothers, becoming a part with him of the seed of Abraham. (Ro 8:15-17, 23-25; Ga 3:29) He has transmitted to them the promised holy spirit, with which spirit they are sealed and are given a token of what is to come, their heavenly inheritance. (2Co 5:5; Eph 1:13, 14) The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000.
…
Holding the offices of Mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ, being immortal, is always alive and able to plead for those of spiritual Israel approaching God through him, so that he can mediate the new covenant until those persons receiving his mediatorial assistance are saved completely. (Heb 7:24, 25) He is able to conduct matters to the successful completion of the new covenant. Those in the covenant are eventually installed in the heavenly priesthood as underpriests with Christ, their great High Priest.—Re 5:9, 10; 20:6.
In other words, Christ is the mediator only for the 144,000 and not for the rest of humankind. Only those 144,000 are part of the new covenant. Here are some other references:
*** w79 4/1 31 Questions from Readers ***
So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.
*** w98 2/1 19 The Other Sheep and the New Covenant ***
Members of the great crowd are not participants in the new covenant.
*** w92 3/1 31 Questions From Readers ***
What about the new covenant between Jehovah and the nation of spiritual Israel? Jesus Christ had the glorious role of go-between, the Mediator between Jehovah and spiritual Israel. Though Jehovah originated this covenant, it rested on Jesus Christ.
*** w91 2/15 17-18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***
With Christ acting as both High Priest and “mediator of a new covenant,” God applies the value of Jesus’ blood to those being brought into the new covenant, legally crediting them with human righteousness. (Hebrews 9:15; Romans 3:24; 8:1, 2) God then can take them into the new covenant to be heavenly king-priests!
*** w91 2/15 18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***
11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom.
*** w91 11/15 30 How Was Jesus Christ a Prophet Like Moses? ***
Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, between God and spiritual Israel.—Jeremiah 31:31-34; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13
*** w89 8/15 31 Questions From Readers ***
Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using “mediator” in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, “attorney”) of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term. Jesus is also a corresponding ransom for all in that covenant, both Jews and Gentiles, who will receive immortal life in heaven.
It would be too exhausting to list all references for “mediator” let alone “new covenant.” Suffice to say, there are no applications of the new covenant to any others than the 144,000 or for Christ being a mediator for any others than the 144,000. However one article was particularly of interest to me since it still has weight today, and is still the official doctrine. The Watchtower article of 11/15 1979 entitled “Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men"” goes into great detail on how Christ is a mediator for a select number. Consider these quotes:
*** w79 11/15 26 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men" ***
17 “This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all [or, for all kinds of people, margin]—this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of [uncircumcised] nations in the matter of faith and truth.”—1 Tim. 1:20 through 2:7. – Bold Added
20 What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6. – Bold Added.
So the Witness’ official interpretation of this scripture is: “This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for [all kinds of people.] —this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of [uncircumcised] nations in the matter of faith and truth.”
This is further expounded by the following:
*** w79 11/15 26 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men" ***
21 Paul was writing according to the facts of the first century of Christianity, during which the new covenant had been put into operation. Into it “men” of all nationalities, Jews, Samaritans, uncircumcised Gentiles, had already been brought after being made a part of spiritual Israel. Christ Jesus was the mediator of that new covenant. Paul’s letter to Timothy regarding this was a case of one ‘minister of the new covenant’ writing to another ‘minister of the new covenant.’ That new covenant between “our Savior, God,” and spiritual Israel continues as long as there are spiritual Israelites still in the flesh as “men” here on earth. So the covenant is in force today. Jesus’ “corresponding ransom for all” lays the basis for men and women of all sorts to become spiritual Israelites and be brought into the new covenant of which Christ Jesus is the “one mediator.” – Bold Added
So, where does this leave those that are not of the elite 144,000, the so-called “Great Crowd” who are going to live on earth? Since Jesus is not their mediator, how do they receive salvation?
*** w79 11/15 27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men" ***
A “GREAT CROWD” OF EARTHLY BENEFICIARIES
24 Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the “alien resident” benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.—Ex. 20:10; Lev. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15.
25 To keep in relationship with “our Savior, God,” the “great crowd” needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites.Why? Because these spiritual Israelites are the “holy nation” of which we read in Jeremiah 31:35, 36, right after God’s promise of the new covenant: “This is what Jehovah, the Giver of the sun for light by day, the statutes of the moon and the stars for light by night, the One stirring up the sea that its waves may become boisterous [against the Egyptians pursuing the Israelites], the One whose name is Jehovah of armies, has said: ‘“If these regulations could be removed from before me,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “those who are the seed of Israel could likewise cease from proving to be a nation before me always.”’”
So the way that the “great crowd” gains salvation is by remaining united with the 144,000. This is the only way that they can benefit from the “new covenant.”
Some may say that this was taken out of a Watchtower article of 20 years ago and so not valid. But public talks frequently have references to articles written in 10-30 years ago, and not uncommonly from 40-50 years ago. So the question would have to be on whether this is current understanding.
Is this current understanding?
There is no evidence in any of the Watchtower publications to indicate otherwise. Any time Christ is mentioned as a mediator, it is applied to the 144,000. Any time the “new covenant” is mentioned, it is applied to the 144,000.
Does this constitute a “denial of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning [Jesus]?” Could this be an “effort to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King?” Let’s look at just one chapter in the bible to make a determination.
*** Rbi8 Hebrews 9:11-28 ***
11 However, when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, 12 he entered, no, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance [for us]. 13 For if the blood of goats and of bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who have been defiled sanctifies to the extent of cleanness of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God?
These verses are clearly drawing a parallel with the high priest offering animals for the forgiveness of sins and Jesus offering himself for the forgiveness of sins. The sacrifice of Christ is being of a superlative value, of course.
15 So that is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has occurred for [their] release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, the ones who have been called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.
Dost mine ears deceive me, or is this new covenant regarding Jesus Christ as the mediator all about the forgiveness of sins? Isn’t it a release of the former covenant with its sacrifices of bulls and goats into a new covenant where are sins are forgiven by Jesus Christ?
16 For where there is a covenant, the death of the [human] covenanter needs to be furnished. 17 For a covenant is valid over dead [victims], since it is not in force at any time while the [human] covenanter is living. 18 Consequently neither was the former [covenant] inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment according to the Law had been spoken by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of the young bulls and of the goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled the book itself and all the people, 20 saying: “This is the blood of the covenant that God has laid as a charge upon YOU.” 21 And he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels of the public service likewise with the blood. 22 Yes, nearly all things are cleansed with blood according to the Law, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.
23 Therefore it was necessary that the typical representations of the things in the heavens should be cleansed by these means, but the heavenly things themselves with sacrifices that are better than such sacrifices. 24 For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us. 25 Neither is it in order that he should offer himself often, as indeed the high priest enters into the holy place from year to year with blood not his own. 26 Otherwise, he would have to suffer often from the founding of the world. But now he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things to put sin away through the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is reserved for men to die once for all time, but after this a judgment, 28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for [their] salvation.
In light of scriptures like these I had to ask myself how the Watchtower society can tie in the Mediator and New Covenant doctrines to the 144,000 and ignores the issue of salvation. Do they also believe that Christ only died for the 144,000? Then it hits me. That is exactly what the Watchtower doctrine teaches: The Great Crowd benefits from Jesus sacrifice strictly by proxy. Jesus’ death and the forgiveness of sins was only directly for the 144,000 and the only way anybody else can receive salvation is by being affiliated with the “faithful slave”. (The “faithful slave” being, in doctrine, all who are going to heaven, but, in practice, the Watchtower Society.) Although we don’t find in modern articles anything stated so bluntly that the great crowd only gains salvation through associating the 144,000, this has never been refuted in a later article. It is still the official doctrine. If you don’t believe it, write to the headquarters yourself. They will not deny that this is still the current understanding. Or if you like, try to find in the Watchtower society’s literature where it says that Jesus died for you. It doesn’t. At the most, you will find that by means of his sacrifice everyone can have their sins forgiven. What remains convoluted and hidden is that he did not do it for everyone, just for the 144,000. Nobody else is entitled to a more personal relationship.
So, ask yourself this: When the Watchtower organization applies the new covenant strictly to the 144,000, and when it declares the salvation enjoyed by the average witness is brought about only by associating with that 144,000, what is it doing? It is denying that all people can come into that new covenant with Christ. Denying that Christ died for all. -Denying basic Scriptural teachings concerning Jesus! By stating that the “Great Crowd’s” salvation is dependant upon its association with the 144,000 it is making an effort to replace him with 144,000 in his position as the high priest! Therefore, using the Watchtower Society’s own guidelines and its own doctrines, it is shown to be their definition of the Antichrist.
The Belligerent Paladin
